Public perception?

[kerf]

When we look at the viability of MBs being accepted as a functional transportation alternative by the general public, we're a long way from that point. Having said that, the horseless carriage was looked at as a curiosity in the early twentieth century, most people thought it was a passing fad. I see two parts to this issue, on the one hand emissions per mile is going to be an issue to contend with but on the other hand fuel consumption is very much on our side. It's no secret here, that the HT and its low cost has been responsible for the popularity of MBs but now that option may be on the way out due to emissions standards. That, while frustrating to many, may be a good thing in the long run.

Markets are an amazing thing, where there's demand, someone will find a way to meet that demand while satisfying regulations within cost constraints. While four stroke power sources come closer to meeting emissions standards, they come at a higher cost, bulk and weight. On the plus side, they're usually more reliable, produce more torque, produce less noise and vibration. We're already seeing a big move into frame mounted four strokes and if someone comes up with a toothed belt drive to a left hand freewheel frame mount, that might do for MBs what the self starter did for the car. There is a growing number of domestic manufactures of MB components and the innovation is beginning to accelerate. As fun as HTs are, they're very limited for reliable general transportation. Not saying people haven't found ways of making them work but for the non wrench turner, they're maybe not the best option.

 

[Happy Valley]

When we look at the viability of MBs being accepted as a functional transportation alternative by the general public, we're a long way from that point. Having said that, the horseless carriage was looked at as a curiosity in the early twentieth century, most people thought it was a passing fad. I see two parts to this issue, on the one hand emissions per mile is going to be an issue to contend with but on the other hand fuel consumption is very much on our side. It's no secret here, that the HT and its low cost has been responsible for the popularity of MBs but now that option may be on the way out due to emissions standards. That, while frustrating to many, may be a good thing in the long run.

Markets are an amazing thing, where there's demand, someone will find a way to meet that demand while satisfying regulations within cost constraints. While four stroke power sources come closer to meeting emissions standards, they come at a higher cost, bulk and weight. On the plus side, they're usually more reliable, produce more torque, produce less noise and vibration. We're already seeing a big move into frame mounted four strokes and if someone comes up with a toothed belt drive to a left hand freewheel frame mount, that might do for MBs what the self starter did for the car. There is a growing number of domestic manufactures of MB components and the innovation is beginning to accelerate. As fun as HTs are, they're very limited for reliable general transportation. Not saying people haven't found ways of making them work but for the non wrench turner, they're maybe not the best option.

Excellent post! In particular for me it hits on some of the long running list of points that I've had pinned up near my computer and been working toward but as yet not achieved uniformly as a goal in my MBs:

Impact the functionality of the original bike as little as possible
Lightweight drive components
Low exhaust note
Freewheels
No swapping quality original components such as 3 pc. cranks
Not driven off spokes

 

[HybriPed]

As fun as HTs are, they're very limited for reliable general transportation. Not saying people haven't found ways of making them work but for the non wrench turner, they're maybe not the best option.

I absolutely DO NOT agree.

In my personal situation, I have commuted over 10,000 kms in 2 1/2 years with a HT. An HT should be clean, reliable, very low carbon and relatively cheap.

The main reason that the HT has been run off the road is that no-one took the EPA threat seriously and it remained in the domain of recreational sport rather than as a serious mode of transport.

This forum (MBC) was very sensitive to environmental content when I first posted about 18 months ago. The other forum thought that the EPA position on 2-strokes were nothing more than a plot by Don Grube.

Understand that the big benefit of HTs is this: The MB is best set up as a fully functioning bicycle that can be used as a bicycle with a full set of gears.

I think that if enough guys got into the ears of the EPA decision makers, then the HT could make a comeback. In terms of environmental credentials, it would make a much bigger contribution to the environment on the road rather than off the road.

 

[Mountainman]

at this time many are ??THINGS could get more serious ??

Are or could MBs be seen as a viable means of transportation?
What would be the obstacles to the public perceiving MBs as a 'green' alternative?

at this time many are ?? ---------- 2-cycle

that about shoots down any thought of being truly green

once all have gone to 4-stroke -- THINGS could get more serious ??

ride that THING

 

[kerf]

I absolutely DO NOT agree.

In my personal situation, I have commuted over 10,000 kms in 2 1/2 years with a HT. An HT should be clean, reliable, very low carbon and relatively cheap.

It must be noted that I do not have, nor have I ever had an HT engine. The opinion I expressed was developed from reading of the experiences of others on this form. As I stated, some here find the HT quite acceptable and for the most part they are the ones with the skills and motivation to keep them running. Opinion seems to be split from those very much like you to those that believe HT's are totally junk and would never buy another.

Me, I don't care, don't own one, am not in a business (like you) that benefits from them. I just read and wonder, that's all.

 

[Mountainman]

sounds like you have the record there ??

In my personal situation, I have commuted over 10,000 kms in 2 1/2 years with a HT.

from what I have seen

sounds like you have the record there ??

is there a secret for getting that many miles ??

that's a good thing

 

[stealthc9]

Hello readers, before you read this post, please read that newspaper article, so what I write today, will make sense to you.

For those of you who are not CA residents, I will tell you that a downloadable form, reg230, can be filled out, and mailed in with a check for 18.00 and a permanent plate is secured! No inspection, No muss, no fuss!

For those interested I could run down the whole set of compliancy rules, as I have so many times before, but will not unless requested here.

Guys, I (and a few others who stood up for the concept of legality), have been very unpopular for our opinions. Now, with the reading of that article, we see a tiny corner of what can be expected, with the actions that are common, accepted, and encouraged here.

Civil disobedience typically results in innocents been cracked-down on, and so many times, the very people who have caused the problem do not care about grief, hardships, and loss of freedoms that are suffered by the innocent citizens. This we will certainly see here.

Will we see the more adult among us rise up and be counted, using this episode as just cause to act more like citizens, and not damage others freedoms?

I wish I believed that the "elders' among us would do this, to further attempt to insure our freedom to build, sell and ride, but I fear they will not. Too many seem to think it is all a big joke, and that those of us that stand up for reason are a bunch of kill-joys and naysayers.

Suffice to say, when I built my first Motor bicycle, and all of the owners I knew were 45-75 years old, there was not the same attitude that we deal with today.

Interesting note here, that exact shop owner called me last week and we had a long chat about legality, and the prospective demise of the 2-stroke bicycle engine kit (NOT all 2-strokes, be sure to know).

So Gentlemen, what shall we do?

The Fee is now $20, I just called. I'm going to send mine in tomorrow.
www.dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg230.pdf


Oh and I ride my Happy time everyday. I love it, it's the 80cc. But my Happy Time does not spew smoke, I have my oil dead on. I have fun I ride it everywhere. Normally I make 8-10mile trips on it each way when I go a decent distance.

The EPA Needs to Reconsider the Happy Time, it's served me well for the past year. As for Reliability... The only thing I do, is wax the chain. And tighten bolts. The bike just sat for 2 weeks. and it fired right up. No Smoke nothing. I've had 2 happy times in the past year.Both times my muffler broke off. I had an issue with the cdi going dead then my bike got stolen In a non-running state. I built another cheapy. And plan to build more, for $100 shipped you cant really ask for more.

I fred flintstone my bikes currently lol. my first huffy cranbrooke died when I flipped my bike @30mph, due to a crummy fender. I took that motor off and put it on a 24" mountain bike and it was great.

 

[augidog]

the HT is not the only option & imo should not be the main focus of discussions like this...my Tanaka 40cc is equipped with a catalytic converter that's CARB certified for 300 hours, and a spark arrester...with its' life-time 50:1 ratio, there has never been the slightest hint of oil at the outlet, and at "half" the size it outperforms most stock HT's hands down...point being, imo the HT needs to "grow up" to remain a viable option, it can be done.

like i said, "imo" of course.

This is because we have no clout, and currently there is little to no action being taken in this direction.

Another thing that is detrimental in the MB world is OVER-SIZED engines, OVERPOWERED engines, SHIFT kits, EXPANSION chambers, and other non-compliant devices. Everything listed above is not legal on most states streets, and likely to get noticed, raise suspicions, and ultimately "clip our wings", yes cause our products to be deemed completely illegal for street use.

So what shall we do to improve our public image, and become a group that will be respected? I will not say, I would love to hear it from you. I will interject here, that a trail of smoke, no matter how small and seemingly inconspicuous, will NOT be an asset when you are dealing with the modern "Go Green" public.

hi, Mike...i've thought on this a lot since your input here...let's say the US goes "third world" well our worries are over and noone need fret MB-politics or MB-standards...but, let's say we do recover & stabilize, in that case we'll need to "get real" if we wanna stay real.

the MB-market is still unregulated for the most part, engines being the rough "exception" of course...and we mostly rely on the consumer/seller relationship and the resulting dialogue...so i'd like to reply as a consumer to a seller about what i think we "should" do...

i think we'll need some sort of self-standardization from the supply end...reference the history of the S.A.E. to get a rough idea of what i mean...

altho it's consumer desire that drives sellers, ultimately the consumer relies on the seller to be offering the "right" stuff to begin with...so my suggestion (good luck with this) would be for the sellers to look out for the consumer as a matter of good horse-sense...something like a "Motorized Bicycle Suppliers Action Group" would benefit our Motorsport iimmensely, imo

 

[HybriPed]

from what I have seen

sounds like you have the record there ??

is there a secret for getting that many miles ??

that's a good thing

Hi Mountainman. Sorry I missed your post some time ago.

The secret is my sprocket which allows the cycle to be used either as a motor-assisted bicycle or a pedal cycle. I completely disengage the engine when I don't need it.

The beauty of the 2-stroke is lightweight power that does not interfere with pedal cycling. The 4-strokes all seem to be just that much bulkier for the same power, say 2 HP (1.5 kW)

 

[BeauBoy]

If you could make your own fuel at home using a still and then blending oil it would be better.


I used to have a site bookmarked a long time ago on making your own ethanol blends, around the time bio deisel was being held up as the new eco pr0n lol, how quick did that turn into big business!. Like its all new, **** they ran jeeps on ethanol blends made with refined jungle juice and coconut oil in papua new guinea during WWII.

Small scale backyard eco fuel coupled with motored bicycles = perfect IMO.