Which kit would you choose… Pls read.

[TheSpeedyNeighbor]

I’m trying to get an engine kit from bicycle-engines.com. There are five kits that I’m looking at.


1: Silver Slant 66/88cc - It seems to be a generic motor like the ones on Amazon.

2: Zeda 80 Firestorm - I’ve read mostly good things about this one.

3: Zeda 100 Firestorm - I’ve had one and I never could get it to work (I’m assuming I just lucked out and got a lemon).

4: Zeda 100 max - I haven’t seen to much about this one.

5: ZTMoto Phantom85 v3 - Apparently has more power but I’ve read that it is unreliable and hard to work on.


I’ve read that 80cc are better for speed and 100cc are better for power. My priority is speed rather that power. It seems to me that more power equals more speed (with a 36 tooth sprocket). Can anyone provide some clarity about this? I know modding can help but I’m not interested in any mods other than a 36 tooth sprocket (I’ve wasted too much time and money trying parts that didn’t work).

Also is there a significant difference between the Zeda 100, Zeda 100 max, or Phantom85? They all seem be the same thing (except for the price). Same for the Silver Slant 66/80cc and the Zeda 80. Is the cheapest one the same as the more expensive one except with a different look?

Finally I’ve read that some models/versions have more issues than others. Which of the above has been the most “battle tested” and found to be the most reliable?


To recap…

80cc or 100cc?

Paying more mean better quality/performance?

Which is the more tested/reliable choice?

 

[ImpulseRocket]

I ran a Phantom for a couple of years, mine was a V2 with the needle bearing. @DAMIEN1307 has had both V2 like mine, and the current V3. Both of his still run and function fine. Mine still runs as well, but has been rehomed to a young man looking to build a bike of his own that I am helping.

The old reliability issues of the Phantom are in the past. They are no worse than any other engine kit at this point, BUT I would not suggest it if your goal is to go everywhere at full throttle. They are the most powerful engine on your list (5+hp and 5ft-lbs of torque) and they make their peak torque at just 3500rpm, so down low and in the mid range they are very strong. Their achilles heel is cooling. If you just want to ride around and cruise at 30-35mph at part throttle, perfect engine for it. Full throttle all the time and it will seize. For another 200ish bucks you can have a Smolik "Menace" conversion done, which solves the cooling issue and allows you to ride full throttle everywhere, but spend at your own risk. There is also nothing really off the shelf for performance parts either. So if you want an exhaust, it needs to be fabricated.

The Zeda 100 Max is a new engine, and so far nobody has reported on it. YD100 based engine, but it has a G4/G5 based cylinder design like the Zeda 80 and Silver Slant, but a 50mm bore. Think of it like a sort of "big bore" kit for an 80 engine, but not. I don't doubt it is a great engine, and I have considered getting one just to throw some spare parts I have on it.

The Firestorm 80 is probably the best engine on that list in terms of useability, power, and reliability. Not as powerful as a Phantom, but still a great little engine. Ceramic cylinder liner just like the Phantom, and it accepts all of the bolt on parts and exhausts. If I were going to steer anybody to a good overall engine, great first engine, this would be it.

The Silver Slant is just a Firestorm 80, but with none of the frills like the ceramic liner, better CDI, Bofeng carb, etc. It still comes with the better chain, as do all of the Zeda kits, which is nice. $129 is a great price for it too. I would buy the Silver Slant before anything I could find elsewhere.

 

[TheSpeedyNeighbor]

I ran a Phantom for a couple of years, mine was a V2 with the needle bearing. @DAMIEN1307 has had both V2 like mine, and the current V3. Both of his still run and function fine. Mine still runs as well, but has been rehomed to a young man looking to build a bike of his own that I am helping.

The old reliability issues of the Phantom are in the past. They are no worse than any other engine kit at this point, BUT I would not suggest it if your goal is to go everywhere at full throttle. They are the most powerful engine on your list (5+hp and 5ft-lbs of torque) and they make their peak torque at just 3500rpm, so down low and in the mid range they are very strong. Their achilles heel is cooling. If you just want to ride around and cruise at 30-35mph at part throttle, perfect engine for it. Full throttle all the time and it will seize. For another 200ish bucks you can have a Smolik "Menace" conversion done, which solves the cooling issue and allows you to ride full throttle everywhere, but spend at your own risk. There is also nothing really off the shelf for performance parts either. So if you want an exhaust, it needs to be fabricated.

The Zeda 100 Max is a new engine, and so far nobody has reported on it. YD100 based engine, but it has a G4/G5 based cylinder design like the Zeda 80 and Silver Slant, but a 50mm bore. Think of it like a sort of "big bore" kit for an 80 engine, but not. I don't doubt it is a great engine, and I have considered getting one just to throw some spare parts I have on it.

The Firestorm 80 is probably the best engine on that list in terms of useability, power, and reliability. Not as powerful as a Phantom, but still a great little engine. Ceramic cylinder liner just like the Phantom, and it accepts all of the bolt on parts and exhausts. If I were going to steer anybody to a good overall engine, great first engine, this would be it.

The Silver Slant is just a Firestorm 80, but with none of the frills like the ceramic liner, better CDI, Bofeng carb, etc. It still comes with the better chain, as do all of the Zeda kits, which is nice. $129 is a great price for it too. I would buy the Silver Slant before anything I could find elsewhere.

Thanks for the info. I should have clarified that a cruising speed of 30-35mph is exactly what I’m looking for. I want something that’s powerful enough so that I don’t have to go wot all the time just to hit 35mph like my last kit. Is the Phantom85 worth getting over the Zeda 80 or Silver Slant? As it is so pricey I would only get it if it had significantly higher performance than the regular 80cc’s. And are the “extra frills” worth the extra $50 for the Zeda 80?

 

[ImpulseRocket]

Thanks for the info. I should have clarified that a cruising speed of 30-35mph is exactly what I’m looking for. I want something that’s powerful enough so that I don’t have to go wot all the time just to hit 35mph like my last kit. Is the Phantom85 worth getting over the Zeda 80 or Silver Slant? As it is so pricey I would only get it if it had significantly higher performance than the regular 80cc’s. And are the “extra frills” worth the extra $50 for the Zeda 80?

As long as you give the Phantom the attention it needs, it can be a great engine. You can't skimp on oil, and it has a longer break in period of 310 miles that you should follow closely.

Out of the box, even with big old me in the seat, the Phantom had no problem hitting nearly 50mph. Smaller people have hit it and suprassed it. It has the power. Paired with a 36 tooth sprocket and a 26 inch wheel, the Phantom will happily toodle around at 30-35mph without being pegged full throttle. The RPM's sitting in a perfect place in the power curve around 6000-7000rpm.

The other engines, as-is out of the box will top out at 30-35mph, Maybe 40 with a really good one and a small enough rider. So if you want more performance out of them, you then have to spend more money on more parts to achieve it.

 

[TheSpeedyNeighbor]

As long as you give the Phantom the attention it needs, it can be a great engine. You can't skimp on oil, and it has a longer break in period of 310 miles that you should follow closely.

Out of the box, even with big old me in the seat, the Phantom had no problem hitting nearly 50mph. Smaller people have hit it and suprassed it. It has the power. Paired with a 36 tooth sprocket and a 26 inch wheel, the Phantom will happily toodle around at 30-35mph without being pegged full throttle. The RPM's sitting in a perfect place in the power curve around 6000-7000rpm.

The other engines, as-is out of the box will top out at 30-35mph, Maybe 40 with a really good one and a small enough rider. So if you want more performance out of them, you then have to spend more money on more parts to achieve it.

I’ve read that the Phantom85 is extremely finicky and that people had to work on it constantly. Is it any different than any of the regular 80cc’s? What are the main issues that you’ve seen about it? I’m sorry about all the questions but $300 is a hard pill to swallow if it doesn’t work.

 

[ImpulseRocket]

I’ve read that the Phantom85 is extremely finicky and that people had to work on it constantly. Is it any different than any of the regular 80cc’s? What are the main issues that you’ve seen about it? I’m sorry about all the questions but $300 is a hard pill to swallow if it doesn’t work.

The only thing the Phantom is finicky about is skimping on oil and trying to go 50mph during break in. You really have to take things people say with a grain or 10 of salt, especially with the Phantom. It isn't perfect, but a majority of failures with the V3 are due to the owners, not the engine.

 

[TheSpeedyNeighbor]

The only thing the Phantom is finicky about is skimping on oil and trying to go 50mph during break in. You really have to take things people say with a grain or 10 of salt, especially with the Phantom. It isn't perfect, but a majority of failures with the V3 are due to the owners, not the engine.

This is probably a complicated question but how do you properly break in a motor? Apart from using a specific oil mix and going easy for a while is there anything else? What is the max throttle you should use? Like 1/2 or 3/4?

 

[GW's Motorized]

This is probably a complicated question but how do you properly break in a motor? Apart from using a specific oil mix and going easy for a while is there anything else? What is the max throttle you should use? Like 1/2 or 3/4?

I'd say open it to 3/4 every now and then, but overall take it easy and around 1/2 throttle

 

[ImpulseRocket]

This is probably a complicated question but how do you properly break in a motor? Apart from using a specific oil mix and going easy for a while is there anything else? What is the max throttle you should use? Like 1/2 or 3/4?

No heavy loads (aka wide open pulls) and avoid constant rpm. The Phantom and Zeda 80 Firestorm have ceramic liners with cross hatching, so their break in takes a bit longer than the typical 2 stroke bike engine. Also avoid prolonged idle time. If it is going to be more than a minute at idle, consider killing the ignition.

 

[Nickt919]

Based on what I’ve read in this thread… my pick is engine #2