dougsr.874
Active Member
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Isn't the same agency (DMV) in charge of the tag office and Driver Licenses...How can the same agency have two different interpetations?
Florida Laws
- Thread starter dougsr.874
- Start date
I assume this is a rhetorical question. Well if so let me answer with a question. Have you ever heard of the Department of Environmental Protection?
rsmithmm
New Member
My attorney told me that what was happening was that some people who had lost their license were going out and getting mopeds and MB's to get around. So the higher ups said that the definition needed to change in order to close this loophole.
SuperDave
New Member
How to register a gas powered bike in Bay County Florida.
After 2 years of building, researching and RE-building my bike to satisfy the legal requirements of a moped (for the purpose of riding my bike down public roads), I have finally achieved legitimate status and acquired registration & tags for my motorbike. The biggest problem I faced was the ignorance of the cops & agents of the DMV, it is necessary to educate them of what the law actually says about our motorbikes. Not to mention their contempt prior to investigation, a lot of them believe that because they work for the state, they know more about the law than you do. Which is why you need to study what Florida law says about our bikes and provide documentation to back up our claims. Don't print out documents from web pages from any site that is not an authorized Florida DMV web page or they may say the information is wrong, you need to use their own laws and wording against their arguments.
First of all, Florida defines a motorized bike as a bicycle with an ELECTRIC HELPER MOTOR, not a gas engine. Motorized bikes are not to exceed 20 MPH, can be driven on sidewalks and bike lanes/paths. If it has a gas engine, it is a moped, providing it has pedals, at least 2 wheels (but not more than 3), is 50 CCs or less, does NOT have more than 1 gear, does not produce power in excess of 2 HP, and does not go faster than 30 MPH. If your bike is bigger than 50 CCs, has a jackshaft & multiple gears, or goes faster than 30, technically it's a motorcycle, and that requires a LOT more paperwork. Motorcycles are titled, which requires a compliance examination (and extra fees), mopeds are only registered in Florida (a lot cheaper, about 1/2 the price).
Second, mopeds require all the so called "Safety Equipment" that is required of a true motorcycle. That means a full complement of lights: Headlight with high beam (2 headlights/flashlights will suffice), tail light, brake light, license light(you can use a motorcycle tail light to satisfy the last 3 requirements), a horn, at least 1 mirror, turn signals, and front, rear and side reflectors (I used colored reflector tape). They also require a kill switch somewhere on the handlebars, in the event the throttle jams wide open or an air leak happens and the motor winds up too fast, you have to have some means of killing the motor to avoid going out of control and crashing. Having a helmet handy hanging from the bike doesn't hurt either. Florida doesn't require insurance on a moped, scooter or motorcycle.
Once you have outfitted your bike with all the necessary equipment, you need to print up some paperwork to arm yourself against their arguments. You need Florida Procedure RS-61, available here:
View attachment RS-61.pdf
or online here: http://www3.flhsmv.gov/dmv/Proc/RS/RS-61.pdf. Get all your receipts and documentation you can find about your motor, print out the web pages of the manufacturer or retail distributor of where you got your motor. Most of us get our motors online, but if you got yours from a brick&mortar business, try asking them to give you the documentation. You will need receipts for the bike and/or frame showing the serial number, if at all possible, as well as for the motor. Bring your bike with you to the DMV, they will need to see it (to confirm the presence of the safety equipment) and verify the serial # matches your paperwork. It also helps if your motor is wearing an ID tag showing manufacturer's name, displacement & power output. Mine came with one, but some distributors don't. Do not panic if yours doesn't, this hurdle can easily be overcome with a dog tag printed up with the necessary wording (China Gas Factory, 48CC/1.9 HP) from one of those automated dog tag machines commonly found in big chain pet stores like PetSmart, or a mall, or even print one up from your computer on a sheet of paper or address label, and glued, taped or printed on an address label attached to the motor case. It only needs to be on there for the registration, you can remove it once you have your tags. In Florida, if your bike has been assembled and in your possession for more than 6 months, no sales tax will be owed. But if newer, you will have to pay tax on your bike unless your receipts show you already paid sales tax. If you bought your bike, motor or parts online from another state, odds are you didn't pay tax. So be ready for that.
Upgrades: If you have performance enhancing parts or modifications that improve power output, such as reed valves, expansion pipe or a performance carburetor, leave those receipts at home, they might be used as an argument that your bike exceeds the 2 horse limit & doesn't qualify as a moped. If you already have such components installed, be quiet about it, don't even mention it to them, most are ignorant as to what comes stock and what is aftermarket parts. If they do ask, say it came with the motor kit. If you have nitrous or a NOS branded boost bottle, hide or remove it.
The DMV requires either a bill of sale, prior registration certificate (from another state maybe?), a Manufacturer's Certificate Of Origin (which most Happy Time motors don't have) or an affidavit from the applicant certifying you are the legal & rightful owner of said moped. You want the last one. Possession is 9/10ths of the law and receipts in your name confirm it. I found an affidavit online and copied it, changing only the county of residence where I live and the personal info. I've duplicated it for you to use. If you live in another county, change that to the appropriate name. Fill it out, using the bike frame serial as the serial # (this becomes your VIN # on the registration) and get it notarized. Most banks offer this service for a fee, usually no more than 10 bucks. DO NOT SIGN the affidavit until you are with the notary, or they may turn you down. They have to see you sign it before they affix their stamp.
View attachment Affidavit.doc
Bring the RS-61,the notarized Affidavit & all your receipts to the DMV. Say you want to register a moped you made from parts.
If they say your bike is just a bicycle with a motor, show them page one Florida Statute 301.003 (2) available here: http://www.flhsmv.gov/courts/latestinfo/ScootersSegwaysMopedsandElectricBicycles.pdf
or here: View attachment FS316.003 - Scooters Segways Mopeds &Electric Bicycles.pdf
and point out the law's definition of a Moped & motorized bike. I highlighted "electric helper motor" under motorized bike statute and "internal combustion engine" on the 316.003 document to show them the difference and silence their argument. If they won't accept it, ask them to print out Procedure RS-61 from their computer and have them read it for themselves. If & when they demand a title, flip to page two of RS-61 and read section 3 - Ownership Documentation paragraph B. Florida does not title Mopeds, they ARE registered but not titled. If they want insurance, show them page 3 of RS-61, section 5.
If you come prepared with all your receipts, legal documents printed from their web sites, a notarized affidavit of ownership, the bike in question, and money, you should be able to legally register it. They may tell you, "once a bicycle, always a bicycle" and deny you just because of the frame. If yours started out just a bicycle and you put a gas motor on it, and they use this argument, then you are stuck, you cannot register it under that definition of the law. That happened to me once, which is why I ended up getting a Skyhawk GT2A frame from GasBike.net, and brought printouts of their web page to show them it was a true motorized frame. After I had that it was never mentioned again. Bicycles do not come with motor mounts, fuel rails or documentation that says it is manufactured for motorizing. I was determined to get legitimized and legal and I complied with everything they demanded within the definition of the law. If they say it's because of this or that reason as to why they will not register your bike, demand that they provide documentation to back them up, then have them read the statute aloud to you. Counter every bogus denial by quoting the law, chapter & verse, prove to them when they are wrong. If they still will not relent, demand to speak to a superior. Never say bike or bicycle, the term you must use is MOPED. If they say it must be inspected, tell them that is only if you are applying for a title, mopeds are not titled.
It took me 2 years and 7 tries until I got it right. Every time I was denied, I got documentation as to why, then went home and amended it, making the appropriate tweaks, modifications and adjustments until I was in compliance with what the law demanded. Then I went back & tried again. I wasn't trying to circumvent the law or get around it, all I really wanted was to ride my bike down the road without being jacked around and hassled by "The Man". I never gave up. If I was in the wrong, I corrected it. It cost me over 2 grand to do it all, but it was worth it. That may sound outrageous to some until they actually see the bike. My bike is top shelf, equipped with not just the necessary components but the best. You get what you pay for. I didn't need flame tread tires, an iron cross tail light, 144 spoke rims, disc brakes, flame grips or flaming mirrors, but I wanted them to customize and personalize my bike. It wasn't enough to just be right, it had to be cool too. Form AND function. But that's just me. You may have to fabricate yourself an electrical system to comply with the lighting requirements, I know I did. You're on your own for that one, as no one makes a "One Size Fits All" wiring harness for our 'hobby'. But it can be done. Check around the forums, there are those willing to share how they did it. Some even provide photographic evidence and step by step tutorials or even videos.
For those Floridian's who do not have a license, carry a copy of this with you and show it to the cops if/when you get pulled over. It's been demonstrated to be a useful defense in Florida courts.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sSEpxMYBxpxfBwpo6tP4QVHCRi9_K64ldufH8oomgTs/edit?pli=1
After 2 years of building, researching and RE-building my bike to satisfy the legal requirements of a moped (for the purpose of riding my bike down public roads), I have finally achieved legitimate status and acquired registration & tags for my motorbike. The biggest problem I faced was the ignorance of the cops & agents of the DMV, it is necessary to educate them of what the law actually says about our motorbikes. Not to mention their contempt prior to investigation, a lot of them believe that because they work for the state, they know more about the law than you do. Which is why you need to study what Florida law says about our bikes and provide documentation to back up our claims. Don't print out documents from web pages from any site that is not an authorized Florida DMV web page or they may say the information is wrong, you need to use their own laws and wording against their arguments.
First of all, Florida defines a motorized bike as a bicycle with an ELECTRIC HELPER MOTOR, not a gas engine. Motorized bikes are not to exceed 20 MPH, can be driven on sidewalks and bike lanes/paths. If it has a gas engine, it is a moped, providing it has pedals, at least 2 wheels (but not more than 3), is 50 CCs or less, does NOT have more than 1 gear, does not produce power in excess of 2 HP, and does not go faster than 30 MPH. If your bike is bigger than 50 CCs, has a jackshaft & multiple gears, or goes faster than 30, technically it's a motorcycle, and that requires a LOT more paperwork. Motorcycles are titled, which requires a compliance examination (and extra fees), mopeds are only registered in Florida (a lot cheaper, about 1/2 the price).
Second, mopeds require all the so called "Safety Equipment" that is required of a true motorcycle. That means a full complement of lights: Headlight with high beam (2 headlights/flashlights will suffice), tail light, brake light, license light(you can use a motorcycle tail light to satisfy the last 3 requirements), a horn, at least 1 mirror, turn signals, and front, rear and side reflectors (I used colored reflector tape). They also require a kill switch somewhere on the handlebars, in the event the throttle jams wide open or an air leak happens and the motor winds up too fast, you have to have some means of killing the motor to avoid going out of control and crashing. Having a helmet handy hanging from the bike doesn't hurt either. Florida doesn't require insurance on a moped, scooter or motorcycle.
Once you have outfitted your bike with all the necessary equipment, you need to print up some paperwork to arm yourself against their arguments. You need Florida Procedure RS-61, available here:
View attachment RS-61.pdf
or online here: http://www3.flhsmv.gov/dmv/Proc/RS/RS-61.pdf. Get all your receipts and documentation you can find about your motor, print out the web pages of the manufacturer or retail distributor of where you got your motor. Most of us get our motors online, but if you got yours from a brick&mortar business, try asking them to give you the documentation. You will need receipts for the bike and/or frame showing the serial number, if at all possible, as well as for the motor. Bring your bike with you to the DMV, they will need to see it (to confirm the presence of the safety equipment) and verify the serial # matches your paperwork. It also helps if your motor is wearing an ID tag showing manufacturer's name, displacement & power output. Mine came with one, but some distributors don't. Do not panic if yours doesn't, this hurdle can easily be overcome with a dog tag printed up with the necessary wording (China Gas Factory, 48CC/1.9 HP) from one of those automated dog tag machines commonly found in big chain pet stores like PetSmart, or a mall, or even print one up from your computer on a sheet of paper or address label, and glued, taped or printed on an address label attached to the motor case. It only needs to be on there for the registration, you can remove it once you have your tags. In Florida, if your bike has been assembled and in your possession for more than 6 months, no sales tax will be owed. But if newer, you will have to pay tax on your bike unless your receipts show you already paid sales tax. If you bought your bike, motor or parts online from another state, odds are you didn't pay tax. So be ready for that.
Upgrades: If you have performance enhancing parts or modifications that improve power output, such as reed valves, expansion pipe or a performance carburetor, leave those receipts at home, they might be used as an argument that your bike exceeds the 2 horse limit & doesn't qualify as a moped. If you already have such components installed, be quiet about it, don't even mention it to them, most are ignorant as to what comes stock and what is aftermarket parts. If they do ask, say it came with the motor kit. If you have nitrous or a NOS branded boost bottle, hide or remove it.
The DMV requires either a bill of sale, prior registration certificate (from another state maybe?), a Manufacturer's Certificate Of Origin (which most Happy Time motors don't have) or an affidavit from the applicant certifying you are the legal & rightful owner of said moped. You want the last one. Possession is 9/10ths of the law and receipts in your name confirm it. I found an affidavit online and copied it, changing only the county of residence where I live and the personal info. I've duplicated it for you to use. If you live in another county, change that to the appropriate name. Fill it out, using the bike frame serial as the serial # (this becomes your VIN # on the registration) and get it notarized. Most banks offer this service for a fee, usually no more than 10 bucks. DO NOT SIGN the affidavit until you are with the notary, or they may turn you down. They have to see you sign it before they affix their stamp.
View attachment Affidavit.doc
Bring the RS-61,the notarized Affidavit & all your receipts to the DMV. Say you want to register a moped you made from parts.
If they say your bike is just a bicycle with a motor, show them page one Florida Statute 301.003 (2) available here: http://www.flhsmv.gov/courts/latestinfo/ScootersSegwaysMopedsandElectricBicycles.pdf
or here: View attachment FS316.003 - Scooters Segways Mopeds &Electric Bicycles.pdf
and point out the law's definition of a Moped & motorized bike. I highlighted "electric helper motor" under motorized bike statute and "internal combustion engine" on the 316.003 document to show them the difference and silence their argument. If they won't accept it, ask them to print out Procedure RS-61 from their computer and have them read it for themselves. If & when they demand a title, flip to page two of RS-61 and read section 3 - Ownership Documentation paragraph B. Florida does not title Mopeds, they ARE registered but not titled. If they want insurance, show them page 3 of RS-61, section 5.
If you come prepared with all your receipts, legal documents printed from their web sites, a notarized affidavit of ownership, the bike in question, and money, you should be able to legally register it. They may tell you, "once a bicycle, always a bicycle" and deny you just because of the frame. If yours started out just a bicycle and you put a gas motor on it, and they use this argument, then you are stuck, you cannot register it under that definition of the law. That happened to me once, which is why I ended up getting a Skyhawk GT2A frame from GasBike.net, and brought printouts of their web page to show them it was a true motorized frame. After I had that it was never mentioned again. Bicycles do not come with motor mounts, fuel rails or documentation that says it is manufactured for motorizing. I was determined to get legitimized and legal and I complied with everything they demanded within the definition of the law. If they say it's because of this or that reason as to why they will not register your bike, demand that they provide documentation to back them up, then have them read the statute aloud to you. Counter every bogus denial by quoting the law, chapter & verse, prove to them when they are wrong. If they still will not relent, demand to speak to a superior. Never say bike or bicycle, the term you must use is MOPED. If they say it must be inspected, tell them that is only if you are applying for a title, mopeds are not titled.
It took me 2 years and 7 tries until I got it right. Every time I was denied, I got documentation as to why, then went home and amended it, making the appropriate tweaks, modifications and adjustments until I was in compliance with what the law demanded. Then I went back & tried again. I wasn't trying to circumvent the law or get around it, all I really wanted was to ride my bike down the road without being jacked around and hassled by "The Man". I never gave up. If I was in the wrong, I corrected it. It cost me over 2 grand to do it all, but it was worth it. That may sound outrageous to some until they actually see the bike. My bike is top shelf, equipped with not just the necessary components but the best. You get what you pay for. I didn't need flame tread tires, an iron cross tail light, 144 spoke rims, disc brakes, flame grips or flaming mirrors, but I wanted them to customize and personalize my bike. It wasn't enough to just be right, it had to be cool too. Form AND function. But that's just me. You may have to fabricate yourself an electrical system to comply with the lighting requirements, I know I did. You're on your own for that one, as no one makes a "One Size Fits All" wiring harness for our 'hobby'. But it can be done. Check around the forums, there are those willing to share how they did it. Some even provide photographic evidence and step by step tutorials or even videos.
For those Floridian's who do not have a license, carry a copy of this with you and show it to the cops if/when you get pulled over. It's been demonstrated to be a useful defense in Florida courts.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sSEpxMYBxpxfBwpo6tP4QVHCRi9_K64ldufH8oomgTs/edit?pli=1
occchopperfl
Member
Awesome post Dave, and nice ride!
I think I had similar posts, but yours was in great detail.
I guess I got "lucky" about 2 years ago when I registered my "moped".
I chatted up at my local tax and tag manager (of 15 years) for about a month, gathered info. to get all my "ducks" in a row, then I went to the tag and tag office, and very easily got it LEGALLY registered. (I do have a valid DL and ML btw)
I was going to do an occ chopper build, but I found it too much for me to do. I ended up with a "plug and play" Huffy Cranbrook, with a BMP FD, (and I also bought the chain as well as belt drive option). To be installed when I feel like tinkering again.
Can you share with me/ the forum about your electrical install?
Congratulations on your determination and success. You have proved beyond any doubt you can register a motorized bike as a moped and be legal in Florida. I must say I had a much easier time doing it than you but that is the luck of the draw when dealing with Governmental Control Freaks. The documentation you provided here will serve others in a very big way in their efforts to register their home made mopeds. A super job by Super Dave. Thank you
occchopperfl
Member
Florida Legal as of 05/12/2014
http://www3.flhsmv.gov/dmv/Proc/RS/RS-68.pdf
Registration and Inspection Required
http://www3.flhsmv.gov/dmv/Proc/RS/RS-68.pdf
Registration and Inspection Required
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