XR-75/Staton NuVinci Build

Okay, This project isn't near finished yet but I have been taking pictures at just about every step of the way. Heres a list of features that are going to be included on this build:
-Mongoose XR-75 dual suspension MTB, aluminum frame, steel rear triangle.
-Staton NuVinci drive with Mitsubishi TLE43 engine, half-lever left hand throttle/killswitch , right side NVshifter. Torsion bars.
-center handlebar mounted digital speedo.
-left handle bar end nashbar convex mirror.
-New aluminum nashbar Jaws pedals.
-double thick and slimed Bell innertubes
-Bell kevlar lined 26x1.75 road tires (thin but should allow this thing to be pedaled if need be.)
-Bottle and cage for extra fuel
-Bell comfort Gel seat (black)
-Finished and painted Staton hardware (gloss black to match rear triangle of bike.)
-Emaxi break levers with internal switches for brake light activation.
-Full lighting to New Hampshire moped standards. Enclosed in a soft (hard lined) black/silver lunchbox to be mounted to the left hand side of the Staton rack opposite the engine.
--55w Halogen headlamp w/ small rectangular enclosure and mounting hardware wired through a very efficient 12v turn dial dimmer switch to adjust brightness.
--A 7 LED taillamp that doubles as a brake light when wired with the Emaxi levers.
--Electrical master on/off switch and 12v battery gauge.
--5ah SLA battery.
--Charger port.
--Possibly an on the move charging system as well as I have a 1200mAh 12v power rectifier that I may be able to hook into a dynamo or DC brushed motor.
-All wires/cables to the staton rack are going to be run down (and through) the center of the frame and will be wrapped in spiral casing and zip tied clean and secure.


I would have this beast finished but I'm still waiting for the weather to get nice (clear and over 50F) so I can prime and paint the staton rack to match the bike. I've already done a lot of grinding and rounding to make the staton kit not appear as chunky. I have to say though this thing is rock solid. I've already mocked everything up and it should all fit together nicely. So here are the pictures. I have tons more but I've had to do the steps all out of order as I got the chance to do them so it would be more confusing to you folks than its worth.

Pic1: The mongoose last summer after a muddy thrillride down a trail near my house.
Pic2: Mongoose with NuVinci installed and cables run, torsion straps are backwards (was just measuring at the time) and heavy duty pedal chain.
Pic3: NuVinci out of the box.
Pic4: Mocked up rack to make sure everything would fit and work well.
Pic5: Cooler electrical box. Front pocket (with penguin) has the dimmer, switch and battery gauge mounted into plastic underneath. Unfinished.

 

[duivendyk]

You are leading the charge,do you think the nipple/spoke alignment (kink) problem enters into this or is it just overstressed spokes.The rim is pretty rigid, so impact forces are transmitted straight up to the top and on to the spokes instead of being partially absorbed by the compliance of the rim.Do you follow me?.So a rigid rim could make the life of the spokes harder and they get busted in stead of the rim

 

[SirJakesus]

I believe it to be the angle at which the spokes enter the nipple creating that kink. Thats the only way I see it that all three spokes would snap off at the same place. I'm not overly heavy (200lbs) and the bike can't be overloaded as the rear shock never bottoms out. I keep my tires inflated around 50-55lbs (40-65psi rated) and they're not bulging out extremely or getting pinch flats even off road. It has to be the kink. Maybe the 3 cross pattern is just too much considering the size of these hubs. I'm thinking a 2 cross pattern would allow the spokes to enter the nipples at a more reasonable angle and given the fact that the hub is so large it should, I hope, give enough torque resistance. I called goodales up and the guy in the service dept said his manager was out for the day and would probably be the one who would build the wheel, so I'm heading down there tomorrow to talk to him in person with wheel in hand. I don't see how a rigid rim would put more stress on spokes as it should take the shock and distribute it more evenly to all the spokes compared to one that may flex more. The rigid rim saved me from tacoing my rear rim after losing all that support so it can't be a bad thing. If I were a betting man I would say they were just laced improperly for that specific hub, or maybe the spokes were just plain no good. But again I've never seen spokes enter the nipples on any bike or motorcycle at that much of an angle. They're just not meant to deal with that kind of stress of being flexed every rotation of the wheel. Spokes are designed to handle compression and tension forces. It's just like taking a straightened out paperclip and you could pull on that sucker straight as long as you like but bend it back and forth for long enough and it'll snap in two with ease, right at the kink.

 

[duivendyk]

You're prob.right,when I noticed the kink it immediately made me uneasy,the whole shebang would flex just a bit at that point every rev.enough of that and you have a crack.If you have access to a microscope with enough magnification, these fatigue cracks have a characteristic look to them.

 

[SirJakesus]

Spoke update

I removed the rear wheel and took it down to Goodales. There was quite a wait on a fully built wheel and they said they would have to cut out all the original spokes in order to measure it properly for a different spoke arrangement (and therefore shorter spokes.) I decided instead to buy the 3 replacement spokes and nipples to replace out of the wheel in hopes that those three were just a fluke. I noticed the new nipples were much shorter and were themselves kinda sideways in the rim instead of kinking the new spokes, score! I also switched over to the original 26x1.95 mtb tires that came with the bike and it rides much more stable than it did with the harder thinner road tires, so those are here to stay. However there is bad news. After about a 20 mile HARD ride I had another original spoke failure right at the end near the nipple just like the three before it. I was riding it hard on and off road to test durability before I took it on a long ride and I'm glad. I'm going to have to go back to the bike shop to get a full set of those spokes and nipples an rebuild the wheel. The new spokes are DT Swiss which I heard were good and the nipples are definitely seated in the eyelets much better than the originals from staton. It just sucks to have to remove the whole wheel again and this time I have to dismantle the entire thing and do a full rebuild. I'm confident that I can use these new spokes and nipples as they're not kinking at the very end as the old ones did.
If anybody else got a nuvinci kit from staton that has kinked spokes I would strongly urge you to keep a good eye on them as I believe this was a mistake by the vendor and not of my own. I'll replace and re-lace the wheel with new spokes and nipples and keep you guys updated if there are any new breakage issues. If thats the case then I'll pull a Zombie modification by drilling out the hub to accept 12 or 10ga spokes and be done with it once and for all. Thanks for all your input and good resources on wheel building. It's much appreciated guys.

I just saw a new "hybrid" bike in the picture gallery that has a Staton NV setup where he zip tied his spokes. If I had no breaks yet I would definitely do this as a precautionary measure possibly relieving some flex at the spoke ends. It seems to work for GEBE and happytime spoke mounted drive systems but really shouldn't be necessary for a hub driven system if it was built correctly.

 

[SirJakesus]

I just sent this email to david staton kind of out of courtesy but also so nobody else has to deal with this... especially me if I order again
______________v_Email_v________________________

Hello David,
I'm just writing this email to let you know that after 450 miles on my pre-built NuVinci wheel with rhino lite rim I noticed three spokes broken off right where they screw into the nipples. I replaced these three and a short while later I had another one of the original spokes break at the nipple after only about 20 miles of reinstalling the wheel on my bike. I just wanted to let you know that the spoke nipples you're using are causing the end of the spokes to kink where they attach to the rim and this is putting stress on them and causing them to snap. The guy I spoke to while buying the new spokes said that was likely the cause as well and he gave me shorter nipples that seem to seat better in the rim and keep the spokes straight rather than kinking them where they're screwed in. I now have to rebuild my wheel properly so it doesn't end up unraveling on the road.
This is in no way a complaint. I know the nuvinci hubs are new for you and your product was of most excellent quality except for this issue, my rim even stayed true despite the three broken spokes. I just wanted to let you know so you could rectify this before you get a bunch of customers that are a bit less understanding *****ing at you about spoke breakage like I'm sure golden eagle hears all the time.

Hope this helps you out. I'll be ordering another kit from you in the near future but only if this issue is resolved. I am hoping to build some complete bikes using your kit but I can't if I know I'll be re-lacing spokes on a brand new wheel.
Thanks,
Xxxx Xxxxxxxx

 

[ozzyu812]

Cool Goodall's!

We only have a goodales dedicated bike shop around here so I hope they're MB friendly

1st place I went with my e-zip was goodall's (near mall in concord). That tech was cool and shocked by the price!
S & W Bad!

 

[SirJakesus]

Statons reply:

I have not had any problems with the spokes and I have a Feb 2007 wheel that has pulled a Tundra truck about 10 times.

Thanks for you input and we will watch them.

Again, we have sold around 300 wheels (since 2-07) with the same spokes you have!

David

See our web sites for more information at:
www.staton-inc.com &
www.motorizedwheelbarrow.com
Ph. & Fax: 405-605-3765
Our mailing address is:
STATON-INC.
3310 S. Brunson Street
Oklahoma City, OK 73119 USA
________________________

At least he will be keeping an eye on it though. I just find it hard to believe that I could be the only one having problems like this. Maybe the only one who has reported it. And I really doubt he's sold 300 nuvinci wheels since the beginning of '07, maybe 300 wheels total but not 300 nuvincis. Besides I don't think its a torque issue as he would suggest by not having any problems with towing. I think its an issue with higher speeds and higher mileage since I had leading and trailing spokes that failed where if it were a torque issue I would think only the trailing spokes would fail. Hopefully he changes his spoke nipples regardless.

 

[sparky]

Statons reply:

I have not had any problems with the spokes and I have a Feb 2007 wheel that has pulled a Tundra truck about 10 times.

David

What was wrong with the Tundra?

 

[Irish John]

What was wrong with the Tundra?

Nice one Sparky. It's best to respond to suspect info with humour. I like it!

 

[duivendyk]

So what,I don't think Mr Staton is acquainted the concept of metal fatigue,that is :repeated stresses far below the yield point can lead to ultimate structural failure,that you pulled a Mack truck a couple of times means absolutely NOTHING.