is there such a thing as "Positive Politics?"

[augidog]

ok, so we have the new area...and it seems we're pretty clueless about how to make use of it.

just like the term "green", "politics" can rile up negative thoughts, feelings, posts...it's the seperatism of the idea, the labels, the insults, the arguing about the past instead of pondering the future.

is it possible to accept the current political scene as a given, and work from there? could someone propose a future action based on that given, and invite ideas & discussion, without someone else feeling a need to gripe yet again that the current situation isn't "fair" to begin with?

can we all agree that, despite whatever we disagree on, this is a real situation requiring real action and unity?

the individual might feel slighted, might feel that freedom is at stake, might feel like a whipped dog, might strike out at those who whipped him, and most sadly might strike out at the other whipped dogs in frustration.

all the while, forgetting the one THING...we are all in this together, regardless of how we got here...

the individual is NOT powerless, not so long as enuff individuals find the common ground, anyTHING common, on which to stand and fight for.

nowadays many feel helpless pondering the concept of common ground...

but we have MotoredBikes...how lucky are we?

[arceeguy]

I like the idea of personal transportation that does not consume a lot of fuel - who wouldn't? Hybrid cars, diesels, electric cars, motorcycles, motorized bikes - love the concept of all of them.

But what I don't like is whe people start talking about "they should _____________." Because no matter how well meaning the person our group is, they are trying to take away the freedom of others.

For example: "They should increase the CAFE gas mileage standard to 40mpg"

or

"They should have a law against people smoking in outdoor public places."

or

"They should make it mandatory to wear a seatbelt when driving."


It seems that everyone supports telling other people what they can and can't do. (Buy a large SUV, smoke at a public park outside, or choose not to wear a seatbelt when driving) But sooner or later, "They" will be after something YOU love.

"They should ban those motorized bicycles, someone is going to get killed on those contraptions!"


So let's freely talk about green this and sustainable that, but avoid the "They should" scenarios at all cost!

[augidog]

yup.

and if we accept that there are those who will tell us what we should do, "what should we do in response?" is a good question to be pondering. keep in mind that those folks gathered the numbers to be able to tell you what you should do, so it stands to reason...

if you have an idea for a local event, petition, awareness ride...no matter how small or how slow it gets started, PLEASE don't be afraid to start a new PRO-ACTIVE topic and get this ball rolling forward.

fight a smart fight instead of a losing one, we can do it IF we can get over ourselves a bit.

[ibdennyak]

There ya go. The positive outlook is what got things done in the past. We CAN do this, we CAN do that. I have noticed society is developing a more negative attitude in the past several years. I have always been a "try it and see" kind of person. I used to be applauded for that, but in the last decade or so, I have become criticized for that. Guess that is what attracted me to these kinds of forums to begin with....people trying new things for the sake of seeing if it works.

I kind of see the negative attitude as part of the reason for the decline of our country as a world power. We used to be a nation of inventors and innovators. Now the social attitude is to be afraid to try anything different, to the point of legislating against it. It's liike everyone wants to return to the womb for safety or something.....goes against the grain.....for me at least. No sense of adventure. I can't say if it is a good thing or a bad thing....but it sure ain't a FUN thing.

[give me vtec]

I like the idea of personal transportation that does not consume a lot of fuel - who wouldn't? Hybrid cars, diesels, electric cars, motorcycles, motorized bikes - love the concept of all of them.

But what I don't like is whe people start talking about "they should _____________." Because no matter how well meaning the person our group is, they are trying to take away the freedom of others.

For example: "They should increase the CAFE gas mileage standard to 40mpg"

or

"They should have a law against people smoking in outdoor public places."

or

"They should make it mandatory to wear a seatbelt when driving."


It seems that everyone supports telling other people what they can and can't do. (Buy a large SUV, smoke at a public park outside, or choose not to wear a seatbelt when driving) But sooner or later, "They" will be after something YOU love.

"They should ban those motorized bicycles, someone is going to get killed on those contraptions!"


So let's freely talk about green this and sustainable that, but avoid the "They should" scenarios at all cost!

I agree 100%... well said.

[kerf]

Ah, nothing warmer than optimism on a cold winters day. When you satisfy the EPA we can begin to work on the DOT and their standards. MB are probably going to be doomed by their own success. When MB's are Federally regulated to be in safety compliance with other road vehicles, what's the point of having one, just buy a motorcycle. It's coming so get ready.

There's something to be said for "under the radar".

[srdavo]

Ah, nothing warmer than optimism on a cold winters day. When you satisfy the EPA we can begin to work on the DOT and their standards. MB are probably going to be doomed by their own success. When MB's are Federally regulated to be in safety compliance with other road vehicles, what's the point of having one, just buy a motorcycle. It's coming so get ready.

There's something to be said for "under the radar".

I agree.

[ibdennyak]

Me 3..........at the present time at least. Unfortunately, if society continues its invasive "protectiveness" that may go away. Probably be a good idea to be "a step ahead" of *them*. Guess the question is.....how to be proactive without poking the hornets nest with a stick. Any ideas???

Creating a positive image while flying under the radar is the first obvious point I guess. Then if the poo hits the air moving device (stolen from Dirty Jobs) we will have a leg to stand on.

[augidog]

and here we go, all addressing some good concerns/points...

first, i should mention that i do fly under the radar as much as possible...the only effective thing i can do is be as visually safe and responsible a motorist as i can be, within my own limitations and of course following my own personal philosophies. i just don't believe that we as a group are invisible anymore, so i do believe that advocating some form of action, factoring in the current rules & atmosphere, is in order.

and one more personal "qualification" that might help make my position more clear.

i mean what i say about MB's being a viable mode of motorized transportation, besides being one of the earliest forms...there's something about riding a 50cc/30mph MB that stands alone, not a motorcycle not a pocketbike, neither of which would exist without someone motorvated a bicycle way back when...and they deserve more status than "hobby" or "history" to me. if attaining vehicle status for these bad-babies means satisfying agencies that all other modes must kowtow to, then so be it.

it'd be a shame to re-discover the solution only to let it fall by the wayside again.

imo, of course.

let's DO find a way to keep moving forward within the confines of the arena as we find it, instead of railing against the conditions as unsurmountable.

[ibdennyak]

and here we go, all addressing some good concerns/points...

first, i should mention that i do fly under the radar as much as possible...the only effective thing i can do is be as visually safe and responsible a motorist as i can be, within my own limitations and of course following my own personal philosophies. i just don't believe that we as a group are invisible anymore, so i do believe that advocating some form of action, factoring in the current rules & atmosphere, is in order.

and one more personal "qualification" that might help make my position more clear.

i mean what i say about MB's being a viable mode of transportation, besides being one of the earliest forms...there's something about a 50cc/30mph motorized bicycle that stands alone, not a motorcycle not a pocketbike...and they deserve more status than "hobby" to me...if attaining vehicle status for these bad-babies means satisfying agencies that all other modes must kowtow to, then so be it.

imo, of course.

let's DO find a way to keep moving forward within the confines of the arena as we find it, instead of railing against the conditions as unsurmountable.

Hmmm, why do I have a mental picture of Augi riding his MB wearing a 10 gallon hat and a 6 gun swinging his lasso around a bunch of errant Mb riders. Good job buddy....keeps the forum fragmenting too much. Now careful with that hot branding iron.