Public perception?

Mike, you sure have a sharp mind. Extremely well put.
My thought is, very few people want less than optimum comfort. They are NEVER going to consider going to a totally comfortless form of transport.
If we don't harass them with obnoxious noise, unusual speed and stupid road moves, we will not catch enough attention for laws to change unfavorably
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Unfortunately, the first two of the three things listed above are REAL popular here. Totally unlike a real bike. And people see it.
 
And people see it.

And what else they see is bicycles as 'novelty items' or a 'tools' used by some to get fit & NOT viable alternatives to their SUVs to gotto the shop and grab a loaf of bread and a carton of milk in/on? as we all know you need v8 power to do that better if it also has all wheel drive, 4x4 preferably! :whistle:

KiM
 
Another thing that is detrimental in the MB world is OVER-SIZED engines, OVERPOWERED engines, SHIFT kits, EXPANSION chambers, and other non-compliant devices. Everything listed above is not legal on most states streets, and likely to get noticed, raise suspicions, and ultimately "clip our wings", yes cause our products to be deemed completely illegal for street use.

So what shall we do to improve our public image, and become a group that will be respected? I will not say, I would love to hear it from you. I will interject here, that a trail of smoke, no matter how small and seemingly inconspicuous, will NOT be an asset when you are dealing with the modern "Go Green" public.

Yup, for the most part pretty dang on. Of course there are many, many who would disagree with this above. To each their own, we all got opinions.

My MB interests have always been more Alt-Trans-Bikes, best alternative to transport me from point A to point B and don't really care that it look like a Harley or much of what it really looks like at all as long as it's fairly safe and very dependable.

I guess I've always thought one of, or perhaps in some cases the only reason, the HT engines to be popularly received is that and they were a cheap, low-ball entry into two wheeled motor sports. They look like a motorcycle. They can be board-tracked and chopped and rendered the appearance they are not a bicycle. That they might be poorly made or unreliable mattered less, as long as they looked like a MC they were ok.

Frankly though, I think this will contribute greatly toward the eventual demise of home bulit MBs. My reasoning for this comes from reading here on this forum. Some, not all of course but some of the interests in inexpensive, motorized, 2 wheeled transport falls with the young, pre-licensed folks who want to ride a motorcycle before they even have a license. Now, I know many kids can want to put a motor on a bike and we were all kids once and at around $100 a kit now they are within reach of many pre-licensed teens..............but to wantonly cross that line is asking for trouble and for grown, mature men to encourage it is to my mind pretty reckless.

If we don't harass them with obnoxious noise, unusual speed and stupid road moves, we will not catch enough attention for laws to change unfavorably
.
Unfortunately, the first two of the three things listed above are REAL popular here. Totally unlike a real bike. And people see it.

Yeah, these opinions won't win any popularity contests for sure.
 
spot on about this being an adult (on-road) motorsport...

sorry younger dudes but i totally agree you should wait until yer 16 to get on the asphalt.

adverse public-perception finally hits home in california...

Zev0 posted this in L & L: Ventura CA really cracking down on MBs.
 
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As time goes by......

Hello readers, before you read this post, please read that newspaper article, so what I write today, will make sense to you.

For those of you who are not CA residents, I will tell you that a downloadable form, reg230, can be filled out, and mailed in with a check for 18.00 and a permanent plate is secured! No inspection, No muss, no fuss!

For those interested I could run down the whole set of compliancy rules, as I have so many times before, but will not unless requested here.

Guys, I (and a few others who stood up for the concept of legality), have been very unpopular for our opinions. Now, with the reading of that article, we see a tiny corner of what can be expected, with the actions that are common, accepted, and encouraged here.

Civil disobedience typically results in innocents been cracked-down on, and so many times, the very people who have caused the problem do not care about grief, hardships, and loss of freedoms that are suffered by the innocent citizens. This we will certainly see here.

Will we see the more adult among us rise up and be counted, using this episode as just cause to act more like citizens, and not damage others freedoms?

I wish I believed that the "elders' among us would do this, to further attempt to insure our freedom to build, sell and ride, but I fear they will not. Too many seem to think it is all a big joke, and that those of us that stand up for reason are a bunch of kill-joys and naysayers.

Suffice to say, when I built my first Motor bicycle, and all of the owners I knew were 45-75 years old, there was not the same attitude that we deal with today.

Interesting note here, that exact shop owner called me last week and we had a long chat about legality, and the prospective demise of the 2-stroke bicycle engine kit (NOT all 2-strokes, be sure to know).

So Gentlemen, what shall we do?
 
So Gentlemen, what shall we do?

Good question. I guess it's outside the purview of web sites like this one, or others similar, to host a mission statement beyond the current one:

MotoredBikes.com was created with the vision of creating a community of motorized bicycle enthusiasts, and providing a means to communicate and convey ideas, thoughts and opinions to one another to help spread the word on this alternative mode of transportation.

Open to the whim created simply by access to the world wide web, I doubt any serious consensus would ever be reached though.

There are times I admit where I wish there was a more defined edge, a well reasoned stance or manifesto even, pertaining to the long term viability of motor assisted bicycles and their remaining a durable transportation alternative.
 
To convert the majority IMO you have a tough road ahead, ICE make noise no secret there, two strokes have a distint rang-da-da-dang somewhat 'tinnie' noise and are pretty well instantly recongniseable (bit like a diesel motor is distinguishable from petrol motor) But i think the biggest factor is the smoke the 2 stroke ICE produces and the smell, blowing half unburnt fuel out the exhaust and the rest in white smoke wont help the cause for the majority of the non-MB public. Its going to be a hard sell either way ...my 2cents...Good luck though guys..

KiM
 
To convert the majority IMO you have a tough road ahead, ICE make noise no secret there, two strokes have a distint rang-da-da-dang somewhat 'tinnie' noise and are pretty well instantly recongniseable (bit like a diesel motor is distinguishable from petrol motor) But i think the biggest factor is the smoke the 2 stroke ICE produces and the smell, blowing half unburnt fuel out the exhaust and the rest in white smoke wont help the cause for the majority of the non-MB public.
Its going to be a hard sell either way ...my 2cents...Good luck though guys.. KiM

True enough I reckon.....particularly given the kind of energy put into unfocused trolling that goes on here......and this a MB enthusiasts site no less.
As my dear 'ol gram used to say "most people would rather fight than win".
Oh well, what are ya gonna do, it's a worthwhile goal nonetheless.
 
"smoke gets in your eyes"

I use a synthetic 2cycle oil and I don't note very much smoke at all. Now I do use a sick bike part pipe. I have a next door neighbor who I share a wall with my little townhouse, not hear me ride in when they were in the garage. Note: I usually kill the motor right before I hit the driveway witch is about four feet before the garage door.

I do my best to leave as small a "footprint" as I can make. I also try to follow all of the motor vehicle laws I can get away with,(use hand signals, stop at stop signs go the right way down the street ect.) I also wear a hemet and a yellow jacket with a LED flasher on my messenger bag.

There are two reason for this behavior First: it sets a good example and second: it improves my probability of survival.

When I did see a little puff of smoke, it was brief and not much of big deal. When I was braking in my motor I used standard oil mixed at a ridiculous level(like 16 to 1) then it was a different story, everywhere I went I left a blue cloud of smoke following me. Once I had my muffler come loose and I make a **** of a racket on the way home. Lucky for me it was just a block and a half from home.

there is a old saying "discretion in the better part of valor" and for MBs it makes good sense.

Mike The Bike guy:cool:
 
i don't understand how my 50cc happy time that burns a liter of gas for every 50km pullutes more than a 2.5liter (50x the displacement) car that probably burns the same amount while parallel parking, can someone explain?

also 22million people riding ebikes means about the same number of batteries (realistically 3 or 4 batteries per person, maybe more), because they wear out every couple years and you gotta have the spares for a long trip, etc), consider how much pollution is created when making these batteries, creating the electricity to charge them, and then disposing of them when they wear out...
Sure. The HT engine puts out 80-100 times the emissions per cc of displacement than does the auto engine with emissions controls. This is in part due to the lack of emissions controls, and in part because the bike runs for at least twice as long per mile (at cruise.)

The CARBII/EPA emissions which our small engines must conform to are intended for weedeaters/generators, or other non-highway applications.

CARBII emissions are in units of grams per KW of output per hour. For two stroke engines, the limit is 50 grams (unburnt HC + NOx emissions) per KW Hour. (4-stroke engines are only 8 grams per KW per Hour!) A Happy time engine is about 3.5 HP per Grubee. Assuming a 3.5 HP (2.6KW) engine that just meets CARBII emissions and travels at a constant 30 MPH:

2.6KW * 50 grams equals 130 grams emissions per hour, for this motor.

You spread the 130 grams over 30 miles (1 hour at 30 MPH) and you
end up with 4.33 grams per mile emitted, for Hydrocarbons and nitrous oxides.

Now, 2-cycle Carbon Monoxide emissions are allowed to be about 500 grams per KW per hour. Following the same calculations as above for CO yields 43.3 grams of carbon monoxide per mile.

Per the EPA,
EPA said:
The current Federal certification standards for
exhaust emissions from cars are 0.25 gram per mile HC, 0.4 gram per mile NOx, and 3.4 grams per mile CO.
So, the hypothetical bike meeting CARBII standards emits 6.7 times more HC/NOx emissions per mile than the car which just meets the EPA emissions limit. (4.33/ (.25+.4))

In addition, the MB generates 12 times the carbon monoxide emissions per mile.

Even my much lower emission producing TLE43 two-stroke still emits about 3 times the HC/CO emissions as a car.

A 4-stroke motor, on the other hand, is about the same as an auto.
 
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